| Message ID | 1401440477-4328-3-git-send-email-thomas.ab@samsung.com (mailing list archive) |
|---|---|
| State | New, archived |
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Hi, Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: > From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> > > Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies > usable in boost mode. > > Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> > Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> > Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> > Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> > Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> > Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> > Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> > Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> > Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> > --- > .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ > 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) > create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt > > diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt > new file mode 100644 > index 0000000..63ed0fc > --- /dev/null > +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt > @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ > +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) > + > +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) > +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not > +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. > + > +Optional Properties: > +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. > + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" > + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for > + details about "operating-points" property. What is 'boost-mode'? What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author place elements in boost-frequencies? Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? > + > +Example: > + > + cpus { > + #address-cells = <1>; > + #size-cells = <0>; > + cpu@0 { > + device_type = "cpu"; > + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; > + reg = <0>; > + > + operating-points = < > + 1500000 1350000 > + 1400000 1287500 > + 1300000 1250000 > + 1200000 1187500 > + 1100000 1137500 > + 1000000 1087500 > + >; > + boost-frequencies = <1500000 1400000>; This is more of a general issue, but I hate the whole cpufreq-cpu0 way of assuming that all CPUs mirror CPU0. It would be nicer if either this were dropped in /cpus or repeated per-cpu. Cheers, Mark. > + }; > + cpu@1 { > + device_type = "cpu"; > + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; > + reg = <1>; > + }; > + }; > -- > 1.7.9.5 > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Superfluous_apostrophes_.28.22greengrocers.27_apostrophes.22.29
Hi Mark, On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. > > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >> >> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >> usable in boost mode. >> >> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >> --- >> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >> >> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >> new file mode 100644 >> index 0000000..63ed0fc >> --- /dev/null >> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >> + >> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as > > Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) > >> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >> + >> +Optional Properties: >> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >> + details about "operating-points" property. > > What is 'boost-mode'? boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in boost mode. The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the scope of this documentation. > > What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to > go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author > place elements in boost-frequencies? I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. > > Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be > really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a > boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? Thanks, Thomas. > >> + >> +Example: >> + >> + cpus { >> + #address-cells = <1>; >> + #size-cells = <0>; >> + cpu@0 { >> + device_type = "cpu"; >> + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; >> + reg = <0>; >> + >> + operating-points = < >> + 1500000 1350000 >> + 1400000 1287500 >> + 1300000 1250000 >> + 1200000 1187500 >> + 1100000 1137500 >> + 1000000 1087500 >> + >; >> + boost-frequencies = <1500000 1400000>; > > This is more of a general issue, but I hate the whole cpufreq-cpu0 way > of assuming that all CPUs mirror CPU0. > > It would be nicer if either this were dropped in /cpus or repeated > per-cpu. > > Cheers, > Mark. > >> + }; >> + cpu@1 { >> + device_type = "cpu"; >> + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; >> + reg = <1>; >> + }; >> + }; >> -- >> 1.7.9.5 >> >> > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Superfluous_apostrophes_.28.22greengrocers.27_apostrophes.22.29 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe devicetree" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 30.05.2014 20:05, Thomas Abraham wrote: > Hi Mark, > > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >> >> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>> >>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>> usable in boost mode. >>> >>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>> --- >>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>> >>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>> new file mode 100644 >>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>> --- /dev/null >>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>> + >>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >> >> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >> >>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>> + >>> +Optional Properties: >>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>> + details about "operating-points" property. >> >> What is 'boost-mode'? > > boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which > are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the > manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode > speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are > usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in > boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in > boost mode. > IMHO the most important part that I believe should be stated in the documentation is that CPU usually can operate in boost mode for limited amount of time, which depends on thermal conditions, which makes the boost operating points separate from normal ones, which can be used at any time. > The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the > scope of this documentation. > >> >> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >> place elements in boost-frequencies? > > I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. > >> >> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? > > Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as > part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible > implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of > this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to > be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? It seems reasonable to have boost operating points completely separate from normal ones, so that a kernel without support for boost mode will not use them. Also considering my comment above, logically boost operating points are not considered normal operating points, due to various constraints that need to be met to use them (i.e. mostly thermal conditions). > > Thanks, > Thomas. > >> >>> + >>> +Example: >>> + >>> + cpus { >>> + #address-cells = <1>; >>> + #size-cells = <0>; >>> + cpu@0 { >>> + device_type = "cpu"; >>> + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; >>> + reg = <0>; >>> + >>> + operating-points = < >>> + 1500000 1350000 >>> + 1400000 1287500 >>> + 1300000 1250000 >>> + 1200000 1187500 >>> + 1100000 1137500 >>> + 1000000 1087500 >>> + >; >>> + boost-frequencies = <1500000 1400000>; >> >> This is more of a general issue, but I hate the whole cpufreq-cpu0 way >> of assuming that all CPUs mirror CPU0. >> >> It would be nicer if either this were dropped in /cpus or repeated >> per-cpu. Would it make any difference? IMHO, as long as the binding is well defined and doesn't cause significant issues, I don't think there is a reason to redesign it and add a necessity to support both new and old variants. Best regards, Tomasz
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Tomasz Figa <tomasz.figa@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 30.05.2014 20:05, Thomas Abraham wrote: >> Hi Mark, >> >> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>> >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>> >>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>> usable in boost mode. >>>> >>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>> --- >>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> >>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> new file mode 100644 >>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>> --- /dev/null >>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>> + >>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>> >>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>> >>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>> + >>>> +Optional Properties: >>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>> >>> What is 'boost-mode'? >> >> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >> boost mode. >> > > IMHO the most important part that I believe should be stated in the > documentation is that CPU usually can operate in boost mode for limited > amount of time, which depends on thermal conditions, which makes the > boost operating points separate from normal ones, which can be used at > any time. The factors that allow a CPU to operate in boost mode and the duration the CPU can operate in boost mode clock speed is a CPU specific description. This binding does not describe such CPU specific behavior. This binding only states the additional clock speeds CPU is allowed to operate in boost mode. The boost mode entry and exit conditions are implementation specific and not part of the scope of this binding and documentation. > >> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >> scope of this documentation. >> >>> >>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >> >> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >> >>> >>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >> >> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? > > It seems reasonable to have boost operating points completely separate > from normal ones, so that a kernel without support for boost mode will > not use them. Also considering my comment above, logically boost > operating points are not considered normal operating points, due to > various constraints that need to be met to use them (i.e. mostly thermal > conditions). > >> >> Thanks, >> Thomas. >> >>> >>>> + >>>> +Example: >>>> + >>>> + cpus { >>>> + #address-cells = <1>; >>>> + #size-cells = <0>; >>>> + cpu@0 { >>>> + device_type = "cpu"; >>>> + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; >>>> + reg = <0>; >>>> + >>>> + operating-points = < >>>> + 1500000 1350000 >>>> + 1400000 1287500 >>>> + 1300000 1250000 >>>> + 1200000 1187500 >>>> + 1100000 1137500 >>>> + 1000000 1087500 >>>> + >; >>>> + boost-frequencies = <1500000 1400000>; >>> >>> This is more of a general issue, but I hate the whole cpufreq-cpu0 way >>> of assuming that all CPUs mirror CPU0. >>> >>> It would be nicer if either this were dropped in /cpus or repeated >>> per-cpu. > > Would it make any difference? > > IMHO, as long as the binding is well defined and doesn't cause > significant issues, I don't think there is a reason to redesign it and > add a necessity to support both new and old variants. > > Best regards, > Tomasz
On 30.05.2014 20:33, Thomas Abraham wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Tomasz Figa <tomasz.figa@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On 30.05.2014 20:05, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>> >>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>> >>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>> --- >>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>> >>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>> + >>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>> >>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>> >>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>> + >>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>> >>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>> >>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>> boost mode. >>> >> >> IMHO the most important part that I believe should be stated in the >> documentation is that CPU usually can operate in boost mode for limited >> amount of time, which depends on thermal conditions, which makes the >> boost operating points separate from normal ones, which can be used at >> any time. > > The factors that allow a CPU to operate in boost mode and the duration > the CPU can operate in boost mode clock speed is a CPU specific > description. This binding does not describe such CPU specific > behavior. This binding only states the additional clock speeds CPU is > allowed to operate in boost mode. The boost mode entry and exit > conditions are implementation specific and not part of the scope of > this binding and documentation. The binding documentation describes properties related to boost mode and so it must explain what boost mode is, otherwise those properties will not make any sense. I'm not saying that specific constraints must be listed, but the text should mention that those operating points might need some. Best regards, Tomasz
On 30/05/14 19:15, Tomasz Figa wrote: > > > On 30.05.2014 20:05, Thomas Abraham wrote: >> Hi Mark, >> >> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>> >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>> >>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>> usable in boost mode. >>>> >>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>> --- >>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> >>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> new file mode 100644 >>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>> --- /dev/null >>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>> + >>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>> >>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>> >>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>> + >>>> +Optional Properties: >>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>> >>> What is 'boost-mode'? >> >> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >> boost mode. >> > > IMHO the most important part that I believe should be stated in the > documentation is that CPU usually can operate in boost mode for limited > amount of time, which depends on thermal conditions, which makes the > boost operating points separate from normal ones, which can be used at > any time. > Yes exactly what I mentioned couple of times on previous version of this patch set[1][2] >> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >> scope of this documentation. >> >>> >>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >> >> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >> >>> >>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >> I was told that index is not preferred based on the previous discussions when the OPP bindings were designed. In addition the OPP binding doesn't enforce any ordering. There are thermal bindings that assume otherwise and is broken. So boost-points is not feasible. >> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? > > It seems reasonable to have boost operating points completely separate > from normal ones, so that a kernel without support for boost mode will > not use them. Also considering my comment above, logically boost > operating points are not considered normal operating points, due to > various constraints that need to be met to use them (i.e. mostly thermal > conditions). > IMO, at-least the existing OPP binding can't distinguish between under-, nominal- and over-drive OPP points. So my suggestion was to have a property that provides the beginning of these 3 points on the OPP curve. Regards, Sudeep [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-samsung-soc@vger.kernel.org/msg26250.html [2] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.samsung-soc/31552
On 30.05.2014 20:38, Sudeep Holla wrote: > On 30/05/14 19:15, Tomasz Figa wrote: >> On 30.05.2014 20:05, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>> wrote: [snip] >>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>> > > I was told that index is not preferred based on the previous discussions > when the OPP bindings were designed. In addition the OPP binding doesn't > enforce any ordering. There are thermal bindings that assume otherwise and > is broken. So boost-points is not feasible. > My understanding of Mark's comment was that the boost-points property would use the same format as operating-points and parsing code would just concatenate operating points with boost points after making the latter with necessary flag or whatever. Best regards, Tomasz
On 30/05/14 19:41, Tomasz Figa wrote: > On 30.05.2014 20:38, Sudeep Holla wrote: >> On 30/05/14 19:15, Tomasz Figa wrote: >>> On 30.05.2014 20:05, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>> wrote: > > [snip] > >>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>> >> >> I was told that index is not preferred based on the previous discussions >> when the OPP bindings were designed. In addition the OPP binding doesn't >> enforce any ordering. There are thermal bindings that assume otherwise and >> is broken. So boost-points is not feasible. >> > > My understanding of Mark's comment was that the boost-points property > would use the same format as operating-points and parsing code would > just concatenate operating points with boost points after making the > latter with necessary flag or whatever. > Ah, I misunderstood that. That should be fine as it avoids duplication. Regards, Sudeep
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: > Hi Mark, > > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. > > > > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: > >> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> > >> > >> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies > >> usable in boost mode. > >> > >> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> > >> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> > >> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> > >> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> > >> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> > >> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> > >> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> > >> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> > >> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> > >> --- > >> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ > >> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) > >> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt > >> > >> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt > >> new file mode 100644 > >> index 0000000..63ed0fc > >> --- /dev/null > >> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt > >> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ > >> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) > >> + > >> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as > > > > Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) > > > >> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not > >> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. > >> + > >> +Optional Properties: > >> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. > >> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" > >> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for > >> + details about "operating-points" property. > > > > What is 'boost-mode'? > > boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which > are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the > manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode > speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are > usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in > boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in > boost mode. > > The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the > scope of this documentation. > > > > > What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to > > go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author > > place elements in boost-frequencies? > > I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. Cheers. > > > > Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be > > really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a > > boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? > > Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as > part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible > implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of > this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to > be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the operating-points property, e.g. operating points = <A B>, <C D>; boost-points = <E F>; Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! Cheers, Mark.
On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >> Hi Mark, >> >> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>> >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>> >>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>> usable in boost mode. >>>> >>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>> --- >>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> >>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> new file mode 100644 >>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>> --- /dev/null >>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>> + >>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>> >>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>> >>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>> + >>>> +Optional Properties: >>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>> >>> What is 'boost-mode'? >> >> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >> boost mode. >> >> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >> scope of this documentation. >> >>> >>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >> >> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. > > Cheers. > >>> >>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >> >> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? > > If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use > as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an > entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the > operating-points property, e.g. > > operating points = <A B>, <C D>; > boost-points = <E F>; you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP style description. What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever acronymned table). Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a convenient description, is limiting. Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on "boost-points" description, when it should not have. > > Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode > table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. > in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! > There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to report them. [1] http://marc.info/?t=140059618500008&r=1&w=2
On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: > On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>> >>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>> >>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>> --- >>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>> >>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>> + >>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>> >>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>> >>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>> + >>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>> >>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>> >>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>> boost mode. >>> >>> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >>> scope of this documentation. >>> >>>> >>>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >>> >>> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >> >> Cheers. >> >>>> >>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>> >>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >> >> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >> operating-points property, e.g. >> >> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >> boost-points = <E F>; > > you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP > style description. > > What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked > frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does > not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever > acronymned table). > > Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a > convenient description, is limiting. > > Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate > how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency > description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change > operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on > "boost-points" description, when it should not have. > >> >> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value > That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no > ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. > >> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >> > There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give > a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever > again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to > report them. > Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating points and this is not desired. Best regards, Tomasz
On 05/30/2014 03:02 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: > On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: >> On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>> Hi Mark, >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>>> + >>>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>>> >>>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>>> >>>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>>> + >>>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>>> >>>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>>> >>>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>>> boost mode. >>>> >>>> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >>>> scope of this documentation. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>>>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>>>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >>>> >>>> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >>> >>> Cheers. >>> >>>>> >>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>> >>>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >>> >>> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >>> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >>> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >>> operating-points property, e.g. >>> >>> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >>> boost-points = <E F>; >> >> you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP >> style description. >> >> What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked >> frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does >> not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever >> acronymned table). >> >> Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a >> convenient description, is limiting. >> >> Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate >> how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency >> description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change >> operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on >> "boost-points" description, when it should not have. >> >>> >>> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >>> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value >> That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no >> ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. >> >>> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >>> >> There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give >> a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever >> again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to >> report them. >> > > Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost > frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because > an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating > points and this is not desired. That means we have an implementation bug in OS since it does not consider the complete hardware description that device tree is providing. An analogy will be a regulator compatible match being used but regulator-min-microvolt and regulator-max-microvolt being ignored by OS. We never said that "operating points" are "primary operating points". all we said is they are "operating points" for the device - we dont associate meanings to it. You may add to it[1] in platform code, as we decided to. boost-frequencies are describing "overclocked frequencies" - should it matter if the description of that comes from platform code OR existing opp tables or what ever? I dont think defining them as "operating point" style as the only way of describing overclocked frequencies are the right approach to describing it. [1] http://marc.info/?t=139482540400003&r=1&w=2
On 30.05.2014 22:13, Nishanth Menon wrote: > On 05/30/2014 03:02 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >> On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>> On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>>>> + >>>>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>>>> >>>>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>>>> >>>>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>>>> + >>>>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>>>> >>>>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>>>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>>>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>>>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>>>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>>>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>>>> boost mode. >>>>> >>>>> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >>>>> scope of this documentation. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>>>>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>>>>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >>>>> >>>>> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >>>> >>>> Cheers. >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>>> >>>>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>>>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>>>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>>>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>>>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >>>> >>>> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >>>> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >>>> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >>>> operating-points property, e.g. >>>> >>>> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >>>> boost-points = <E F>; >>> >>> you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP >>> style description. >>> >>> What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked >>> frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does >>> not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever >>> acronymned table). >>> >>> Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a >>> convenient description, is limiting. >>> >>> Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate >>> how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency >>> description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change >>> operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on >>> "boost-points" description, when it should not have. >>> >>>> >>>> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >>>> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value >>> That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no >>> ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. >>> >>>> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >>>> >>> There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give >>> a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever >>> again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to >>> report them. >>> >> >> Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost >> frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because >> an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating >> points and this is not desired. > > That means we have an implementation bug in OS since it does not > consider the complete hardware description that device tree is > providing. An analogy will be a regulator compatible match being used > but regulator-min-microvolt and regulator-max-microvolt being ignored > by OS. No. The operating points bindings were defined far before this boost-frequency and so there is no requirement to support the latter. > > We never said that "operating points" are "primary operating points". > all we said is they are "operating points" for the device - we dont > associate meanings to it. You may add to it[1] in platform code, as we > decided to. Maybe generic OPP bindings don't state that, but I believe that at least cpufreq-cpu0 bindings have been defined (and the driver implemented) this way and changing the semantics now would be breaking DT ABI compatibility. > > boost-frequencies are describing "overclocked frequencies" - should it > matter if the description of that comes from platform code OR existing > opp tables or what ever? I dont think defining them as "operating > point" style as the only way of describing overclocked frequencies are > the right approach to describing it. Nobody said that it is the only way. The whole point here is that it should be separate from the main operating-points property, as boost operating points are not normal operating points and the OS must be specifically aware how to handle them. Best regards, Tomasz
On 05/30/2014 03:19 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: > On 30.05.2014 22:13, Nishanth Menon wrote: >> On 05/30/2014 03:02 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >>> On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>>> On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>>>>> + >>>>>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>>>>> + >>>>>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>>>>> >>>>>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>>>>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>>>>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>>>>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>>>>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>>>>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>>>>> boost mode. >>>>>> >>>>>> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >>>>>> scope of this documentation. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>>>>>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>>>>>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >>>>>> >>>>>> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers. >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>>>> >>>>>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>>>>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>>>>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>>>>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>>>>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >>>>> >>>>> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >>>>> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >>>>> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >>>>> operating-points property, e.g. >>>>> >>>>> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >>>>> boost-points = <E F>; >>>> >>>> you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP >>>> style description. >>>> >>>> What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked >>>> frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does >>>> not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever >>>> acronymned table). >>>> >>>> Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a >>>> convenient description, is limiting. >>>> >>>> Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate >>>> how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency >>>> description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change >>>> operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on >>>> "boost-points" description, when it should not have. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >>>>> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value >>>> That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no >>>> ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. >>>> >>>>> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >>>>> >>>> There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give >>>> a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever >>>> again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to >>>> report them. >>>> >>> >>> Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost >>> frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because >>> an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating >>> points and this is not desired. >> >> That means we have an implementation bug in OS since it does not >> consider the complete hardware description that device tree is >> providing. An analogy will be a regulator compatible match being used >> but regulator-min-microvolt and regulator-max-microvolt being ignored >> by OS. > > No. The operating points bindings were defined far before this > boost-frequency and so there is no requirement to support the latter. So, we dont add any new bindings ever again? /me blinks. *IF* we add a new property in the future, do we expect the new description to be supported in older kernel(which could not have known about it)? How far are we taking this ABI thing? Documentation/devicetree/bindings/ABI.txt states: 3) Bindings can be augmented, but the driver shouldn't break when given the old binding. ie. add additional properties, but don't change the meaning of an existing property. For drivers, default to the original behaviour when a newly added property is missing. we are not changing the meaning of existing property, we are augumenting it. In my opinion, *IF* we are concerned about polluting operating-points description, why dont we enforce that the boost operating points should NOT be defined in the current "operating-points" description - and - just follow what Rob suggested and iMx already does - add such operating points from platform code. >> We never said that "operating points" are "primary operating points". >> all we said is they are "operating points" for the device - we dont >> associate meanings to it. You may add to it[1] in platform code, as we >> decided to. > > Maybe generic OPP bindings don't state that, but I believe that at least > cpufreq-cpu0 bindings have been defined (and the driver implemented) > this way and changing the semantics now would be breaking DT ABI > compatibility. Did you mean Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-cpu0.txt which points to the generic bindings? Quote: - operating-points: Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for details >> boost-frequencies are describing "overclocked frequencies" - should it >> matter if the description of that comes from platform code OR existing >> opp tables or what ever? I dont think defining them as "operating >> point" style as the only way of describing overclocked frequencies are >> the right approach to describing it. > > Nobody said that it is the only way. The whole point here is that it > should be separate from the main operating-points property, as boost > operating points are not normal operating points and the OS must be > specifically aware how to handle them. They are descriptions - I repeat myself when I state that they are "overclocked frequencies" that happen to map to operating points on the platforms of concern, but may not necessarily be OPP based on other platforms which also be able to support "overclocked frequencies".
On 30.05.2014 22:33, Nishanth Menon wrote: > On 05/30/2014 03:19 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >> On 30.05.2014 22:13, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>> On 05/30/2014 03:02 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >>>> On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>>>> On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>>>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>>>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>>>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>>>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>>>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>>>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>>>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>>>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>>>>>> + >>>>>>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>>>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>>>>>> + >>>>>>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>>>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>>>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>>>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>>>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>>>>>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>>>>>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>>>>>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>>>>>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>>>>>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>>>>>> boost mode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >>>>>>> scope of this documentation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>>>>>>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>>>>>>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>>>>>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>>>>>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>>>>>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>>>>>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >>>>>> >>>>>> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >>>>>> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >>>>>> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >>>>>> operating-points property, e.g. >>>>>> >>>>>> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >>>>>> boost-points = <E F>; >>>>> >>>>> you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP >>>>> style description. >>>>> >>>>> What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked >>>>> frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does >>>>> not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever >>>>> acronymned table). >>>>> >>>>> Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a >>>>> convenient description, is limiting. >>>>> >>>>> Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate >>>>> how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency >>>>> description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change >>>>> operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on >>>>> "boost-points" description, when it should not have. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >>>>>> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value >>>>> That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no >>>>> ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. >>>>> >>>>>> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >>>>>> >>>>> There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give >>>>> a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever >>>>> again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to >>>>> report them. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost >>>> frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because >>>> an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating >>>> points and this is not desired. >>> >>> That means we have an implementation bug in OS since it does not >>> consider the complete hardware description that device tree is >>> providing. An analogy will be a regulator compatible match being used >>> but regulator-min-microvolt and regulator-max-microvolt being ignored >>> by OS. >> >> No. The operating points bindings were defined far before this >> boost-frequency and so there is no requirement to support the latter. > > So, we dont add any new bindings ever again? /me blinks. *IF* we add a > new property in the future, do we expect the new description to be > supported in older kernel(which could not have known about it)? How > far are we taking this ABI thing? > Documentation/devicetree/bindings/ABI.txt states: > 3) Bindings can be augmented, but the driver shouldn't break when given > the old binding. ie. add additional properties, but don't change the > meaning of an existing property. For drivers, default to the original > behaviour when a newly added property is missing. > > we are not changing the meaning of existing property, we are > augumenting it. > > In my opinion, *IF* we are concerned about polluting operating-points > description, why dont we enforce that the boost operating points > should NOT be defined in the current "operating-points" description - > and - just follow what Rob suggested and iMx already does - add such > operating points from platform code. > > >>> We never said that "operating points" are "primary operating points". >>> all we said is they are "operating points" for the device - we dont >>> associate meanings to it. You may add to it[1] in platform code, as we >>> decided to. >> >> Maybe generic OPP bindings don't state that, but I believe that at least >> cpufreq-cpu0 bindings have been defined (and the driver implemented) >> this way and changing the semantics now would be breaking DT ABI >> compatibility. > Did you mean > Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-cpu0.txt which > points to the generic bindings? Quote: > - operating-points: Refer to > Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt > for details > >>> boost-frequencies are describing "overclocked frequencies" - should it >>> matter if the description of that comes from platform code OR existing >>> opp tables or what ever? I dont think defining them as "operating >>> point" style as the only way of describing overclocked frequencies are >>> the right approach to describing it. >> >> Nobody said that it is the only way. The whole point here is that it >> should be separate from the main operating-points property, as boost >> operating points are not normal operating points and the OS must be >> specifically aware how to handle them. > They are descriptions - I repeat myself when I state that they are > "overclocked frequencies" that happen to map to operating points on > the platforms of concern, but may not necessarily be OPP based on > other platforms which also be able to support "overclocked frequencies". > > OK, so you add overclocked frequencies to operating-points property, boost-frequency property, build a dtb, use it with a kernel that doesn't support boost-frequency and nicely overheat (and likely destroy) your board. I don't think this makes too much sense, sorry. Best regards, Tomasz
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> wrote: > On 05/30/2014 03:19 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >> On 30.05.2014 22:13, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>> On 05/30/2014 03:02 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >>>> On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>>>> On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:01:17AM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>>>> From: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Add a new optional boost-frequency binding for specifying the frequencies >>>>>>>>> usable in boost mode. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Pawel Moll <pawel.moll@arm.com> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Ian Campbell <ijc+devicetree@hellion.org.uk> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kumar Gala <galak@codeaurora.org> >>>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Thomas Abraham <thomas.ab@samsung.com> >>>>>>>>> Acked-by: Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org> >>>>>>>>> Acked-by: Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> >>>>>>>>> Acked-by: Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt | 38 ++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>>> 1 file changed, 38 insertions(+) >>>>>>>>> create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>>> new file mode 100644 >>>>>>>>> index 0000000..63ed0fc >>>>>>>>> --- /dev/null >>>>>>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt >>>>>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ >>>>>>>>> +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) >>>>>>>>> + >>>>>>>>> +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nit: CPUs (we're not greengrocers [1]) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not >>>>>>>>> +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. >>>>>>>>> + >>>>>>>>> +Optional Properties: >>>>>>>>> +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. >>>>>>>>> + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" >>>>>>>>> + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for >>>>>>>>> + details about "operating-points" property. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is 'boost-mode'? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> boost-mode activates additional one or more cpu clock speeds (which >>>>>>> are not specified as operating frequency of the cpu by the >>>>>>> manufacturer). The cpu is allowed to operate in these boost mode >>>>>>> speeds when the boost mode is active. The boost mode speeds are >>>>>>> usually undocumented. Some of the chip samples could be clocked in >>>>>>> boost mode speeds and only such samples can be safely operated in >>>>>>> boost mode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The mechanism of entry into and exit out of boost mode is outside the >>>>>>> scope of this documentation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What are the limitations on boost frequencies? When is a CPU expected to >>>>>>>> go to these frequencies and for now long? When should I as a dt author >>>>>>>> place elements in boost-frequencies? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will add these details in the next revision of this patch. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>>>>>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>>>>>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>>>>>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>>>>>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >>>>>> >>>>>> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >>>>>> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >>>>>> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >>>>>> operating-points property, e.g. >>>>>> >>>>>> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >>>>>> boost-points = <E F>; >>>>> >>>>> you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP >>>>> style description. >>>>> >>>>> What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked >>>>> frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does >>>>> not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever >>>>> acronymned table). >>>>> >>>>> Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a >>>>> convenient description, is limiting. >>>>> >>>>> Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate >>>>> how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency >>>>> description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change >>>>> operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on >>>>> "boost-points" description, when it should not have. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >>>>>> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value >>>>> That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no >>>>> ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. >>>>> >>>>>> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >>>>>> >>>>> There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give >>>>> a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever >>>>> again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to >>>>> report them. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost >>>> frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because >>>> an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating >>>> points and this is not desired. >>> >>> That means we have an implementation bug in OS since it does not >>> consider the complete hardware description that device tree is >>> providing. An analogy will be a regulator compatible match being used >>> but regulator-min-microvolt and regulator-max-microvolt being ignored >>> by OS. >> >> No. The operating points bindings were defined far before this >> boost-frequency and so there is no requirement to support the latter. > > So, we dont add any new bindings ever again? /me blinks. *IF* we add a > new property in the future, do we expect the new description to be > supported in older kernel(which could not have known about it)? How > far are we taking this ABI thing? > Documentation/devicetree/bindings/ABI.txt states: > 3) Bindings can be augmented, but the driver shouldn't break when given > the old binding. ie. add additional properties, but don't change the > meaning of an existing property. For drivers, default to the original > behaviour when a newly added property is missing. > > we are not changing the meaning of existing property, we are > augumenting it. You are changing the meaning of entries in that they can have additional data which changes their properties. If we accept the DT changes (as DT maintainers) and reject the kernel changes (as kernel maintainers), you would be left with a broken system. > In my opinion, *IF* we are concerned about polluting operating-points > description, why dont we enforce that the boost operating points > should NOT be defined in the current "operating-points" description - > and - just follow what Rob suggested and iMx already does - add such > operating points from platform code. I believe I also said on this and other attempts to bandage up the existing OPP binding, that we should not change/append it, but define a new binding for OPPs that addresses this and other issues. Otherwise, I'm going to just NAK every incomplete OPP binding bandaid. Rob
On 05/30/2014 03:45 PM, Rob Herring wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Nishanth Menon <nm@ti.com> wrote: >> On 05/30/2014 03:19 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >>> On 30.05.2014 22:13, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>>> On 05/30/2014 03:02 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >>>>> On 30.05.2014 21:50, Nishanth Menon wrote: >>>>>> On 05/30/2014 01:55 PM, Mark Rutland wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 07:05:43PM +0100, Thomas Abraham wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apologies for being somewhat late w.r.t. review on this. >>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>> Why are these in both operating-points and boost-frequencies? It'll be >>>>>>>>> really easy to accidentally forget to mark something as a >>>>>>>>> boost-frequency this way. Why not have a boost-points instead? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does boost-points mean a set of clock speeds which are not listed as >>>>>>>> part of operating-points property? If yes, that also is a possible >>>>>>>> implementation (it was implemented in one of the earlier version of >>>>>>>> this series). Could you confirm that you want the boost mode speeds to >>>>>>>> be exclusive of the speeds listed in operating-points? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If these boost mode operating points are not generally advisable for use >>>>>>> as the other operating-points are, then they should IMO been in an >>>>>>> entirely separate property exclusive of (but in the same format as) the >>>>>>> operating-points property, e.g. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> operating points = <A B>, <C D>; >>>>>>> boost-points = <E F>; >>>>>> >>>>>> you are asking boost frequencies to remain for ever tied down to OPP >>>>>> style description. >>>>>> >>>>>> What we are trying to describe? "What are my SoC's overclocked >>>>>> frequencies"? That description can be used even in a system that does >>>>>> not use OPP style table (say ACPI based OPP tables or whatever >>>>>> acronymned table). >>>>>> >>>>>> Tying it down to operating points just because we have it today as a >>>>>> convenient description, is limiting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Further, if we decide to educate boost-frequencies to also indicate >>>>>> how long is it safe? That does indeed belong to boost-frequency >>>>>> description and not OPP description. Or if we decide to change >>>>>> operating-points description[1] in the future has an impact on >>>>>> "boost-points" description, when it should not have. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Otherwise, without boost-mode support we have to parse the boost mode >>>>>>> table to figure out which points to avoid. Or if someone typos a value >>>>>> That is OS usage of h/w description - yeah - in anycase, if OS has no >>>>>> ability to deal with boost-frequencies, it should skip it for sure. >>>>>> >>>>>>> in either table we might go into a boost mode when we didn't want to! >>>>>>> >>>>>> There are other ways to screw up device with dts typo. you could give >>>>>> a wrong voltage(extra 0?) and ensure you never use the chip ever >>>>>> again.. typos are dt bugs, we can do the best to write robust code to >>>>>> report them. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Typos are not the primary thing to worry about here. Adding boost >>>>> frequencies to the list of primary operating points is flawed, because >>>>> an OS that has no idea of boost mode will use them as normal operating >>>>> points and this is not desired. >>>> >>>> That means we have an implementation bug in OS since it does not >>>> consider the complete hardware description that device tree is >>>> providing. An analogy will be a regulator compatible match being used >>>> but regulator-min-microvolt and regulator-max-microvolt being ignored >>>> by OS. >>> >>> No. The operating points bindings were defined far before this >>> boost-frequency and so there is no requirement to support the latter. >> >> So, we dont add any new bindings ever again? /me blinks. *IF* we add a >> new property in the future, do we expect the new description to be >> supported in older kernel(which could not have known about it)? How >> far are we taking this ABI thing? >> Documentation/devicetree/bindings/ABI.txt states: >> 3) Bindings can be augmented, but the driver shouldn't break when given >> the old binding. ie. add additional properties, but don't change the >> meaning of an existing property. For drivers, default to the original >> behaviour when a newly added property is missing. >> >> we are not changing the meaning of existing property, we are >> augumenting it. > > You are changing the meaning of entries in that they can have > additional data which changes their properties. > > If we accept the DT changes (as DT maintainers) and reject the kernel > changes (as kernel maintainers), you would be left with a broken > system. That is true and I agree. > >> In my opinion, *IF* we are concerned about polluting operating-points >> description, why dont we enforce that the boost operating points >> should NOT be defined in the current "operating-points" description - >> and - just follow what Rob suggested and iMx already does - add such >> operating points from platform code. > > I believe I also said on this and other attempts to bandage up the > existing OPP binding, that we should not change/append it, but define > a new binding for OPPs that addresses this and other issues. > Otherwise, I'm going to just NAK every incomplete OPP binding bandaid. Are we open to creating a completely mutually-exclusive binding and maintain the legacy one as "legacy support without any modification" while we debate the new binding? I dont deny that we have more bandage discussions that we'd like on these bindings, So, would like views if we want to define a better one from scratch rather than continue to figure out how to live with existing one? Here are the options I can think of. 1. New binding: Lets say each OPP as phandles? -> that sounds like the closest I have heard as something that remotely makes sense to scale properties? 2. Remove OPP bindings entirely - only way to add/modify OPP is from platform code. Anyone has better suggestions what we can do?
On 05/30/2014 03:43 PM, Tomasz Figa wrote: [...] > OK, so you add overclocked frequencies to operating-points property, > boost-frequency property, build a dtb, use it with a kernel that doesn't > support boost-frequency and nicely overheat (and likely destroy) your > board. I don't think this makes too much sense, sorry. Yes, that is unfortunately true as well :( Sigh.
diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..63ed0fc --- /dev/null +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/cpufreq/cpufreq-boost.txt @@ -0,0 +1,38 @@ +* Device tree binding for CPU boost frequency (aka over-clocking) + +Certain CPU's can be operated in optional 'boost' mode (or sometimes referred as +overclocking) in which the CPU can operate at frequencies which are not +specified by the manufacturer as CPU's operating frequency. + +Optional Properties: +- boost-frequencies: list of frequencies in KHz to be used only in boost mode. + This list should be a subset of frequencies listed in "operating-points" + property. Refer to Documentation/devicetree/bindings/power/opp.txt for + details about "operating-points" property. + +Example: + + cpus { + #address-cells = <1>; + #size-cells = <0>; + cpu@0 { + device_type = "cpu"; + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; + reg = <0>; + + operating-points = < + 1500000 1350000 + 1400000 1287500 + 1300000 1250000 + 1200000 1187500 + 1100000 1137500 + 1000000 1087500 + >; + boost-frequencies = <1500000 1400000>; + }; + cpu@1 { + device_type = "cpu"; + compatible = "arm,cortex-a9"; + reg = <1>; + }; + };